Then buy it back at a substantial mark-up
The Queensland Competition Authority (QCA), in a recently released issues paper, has suggested that solar PV (photovoltaic) owners only be paid the wholesale market value of electricity for all generation their systems produce,” says this article by Tristan Edis.
Through the introduction of “gross metering” owners of PV systems would have to export all their generation to the grid, receiving around 8 cents per kilowatt-hour. They could not use the generation from their systems to meet their own consumption needs thereby avoiding purchasing electricity from their electricity retailer, which is charged at a price of around 20 to 30 cents per kilowatt-hour.
“This is like telling someone they aren’t allowed to eat the fruit and vegetables grown in their own backyard and must sell it to the local Coles or Woolworths where they’ll then have to buy it back at a substantial mark-up,” says Matthew Wright of Beyond Zero Emissions. “This will kill the solar PV sector.”
Thanks to Laurel for this link
39 Responses to Qld Gov’t to force photovoltaic owners to sell all their electricity to retailers
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This would not be happening if the previous scheme which paid 44c per kilowatt for solar systems had been allowed to start . This system which allowed greedy people to transfer their costs of the system instillation to other power consumers who foot their bill .So tough titties as per usual the government allowed the rich to exploit poorer consumers .So richer electricity consumers who want this option have got to take it un -lubricated or BUY SOME BATTERIES AND STOP SNIVELING LIKE LITTLE GIRLS .
Fruit and veges!!!….don’t hold your breath…Monsanto would like everyone to buy there seed at their price…and organic growers will slowly be squeezed out because Monsanto will legislate there own seed as being the only “safe” seed.
That sounds like a diabolical plot to subsidize utilities and screw over those that saved hard earned money and invested in the means of production. May be the producers of solar electric power need to get off the grid altogether and use their own product to power their homes and crack water into hydrogen and oxygen to power their vehicals.
Shhhh Shhh! Don’t hold them to their own standards!
No you are not reading the story correctly – there is no plot – if you don’t like the conditions DON’T install the solar system.
This only applies to NEW installations not approved before July 1 2012 – existing installations are NOT affected – I know I have a modest one which may pay for itself if I live long enough.
Obviously NO-ONE is going to install a solar system NOW and that is the point.
The government HAD to stop the expansion of the scheme and the increasing costs before we ended up like the renewable mad countries in Europe – broke and needing bailouts.
There must be a message here – this is good news and a return to sanity.
“We’re from the government, and we’re here to help you…”
‘Twas Ronald Reagan said that. He might have been quoting, but I doubt it.
Excellent idea. Serves the greedy photovoltaic owners right.
The fact that those wealthy enough to be able to install photovoltaics were then paid a disproportionate amount for the electricity meant that the poor were effectively subsidising the rich. An immoral crime if ever there were one.
A welcome return to fiscal commonsense and social decency.
The opinions of J Martin are not the opinion of all Martins.
J, did you not read Matthew Wright’s comment? You have the same twisted logic of a man that told the guy with the small business you didn’t build that.
My first thought when I read the article was how absurd, that could never pass but then I remembered where I live and if FPL wanted it they would get it just for the asking…
You’re right except that this only apples to NEW installations not approved before July 1 2012.
Obviously no-one is going to install a solar system now and that is the point.
The government HAD to stop the expansion of the scheme and the increasing costs before we ended up like the renewable mad countries in Europe – broke and needing bailouts.
There must be a message here – this is good news and a return to sanity.
We’ve been living off the grid for 16 years. We love it. It’s really just buying electricity in advance, and we’re not rich.
Utilities are jealous of their monopoly and just can’t stand the fact that energy is available at reasonable cost that doesn’t come from them.
What we’ve done is not for everyone, but if you live in the country and you like independence it’s great. Get batteries and forget selling power to the utilities.
We love not getting those nasty utility bills!
I am amazed at the difference in opinions expressed here. On one hand we have those that appreciate the fact that people took a shot, installed an untested technology and as a result reaped the rewards. On the other hand we have those that think only rich people can afford to install solar and so somehow are deserving of getting a raw deal from the govt. Interesting sociological experiment.
No one “took a shot” as you said – it was simple mathematics and wealthy people took advantage of it.
It was nothing more than a wealth transfer from the poor to the wealthy through a green ideal.
No-one will get a raw deal as you put it – obviously no-one will install a system under the conditions outlined in the story AND THAT IS THE POINT.
The government neede to kil the scheme as soon as because it was costing the government lots of money and they forced the cost of electricity up and that made them unpopular – in Australia most generation of electricity is owned by the state governments – the private sector wasn’t big enough in the past to afford such massive infrastructure costs.
You needed at least $10,000 contribution to get a big enough system which really cost about $30,000 to $40,000 but the installer got the rest from the government.
At 44 cents a KWHr a big system makes money and pays for itself. Some states in Aus paid up to 60 cents.
A small system makes little money though does offset your costs.
In three years I have never made more than $35 in a bill of say $300.
So I make $35 and saved half of that – $17 – so my system generates about $210 a year. Mine will break even in about 20 years if you include the lost bank interest.
If you have a system ten times that size you make much more than 10 times that (because the amount used is similar in each case but is not the same percentage) and it will pay for itself in no time at all.
This scheme was a ripoff and most people were paying more than was needed for a basic essential of modern life like electricity simply to keep a few lunatic “the world is gonna end” green “renewable” enthusiasts and the climate change fraudsters happy.
Good riddance to the ripoff I say !
About time sense prevailed. Those who cannot afford the capital outlay subsidise those who can. From 1 January 2013 the feed-in tariff in Victoria will also be reduced to 8c pkwh, however there are plenty of people sitting on 60c pkwh and will be for the next 10 or so years.
The whole green thing fair gets up my nose!
In addition my power bill went up $100 to $370 because of these subsidies and the farcical Carbon Tax .But I laugh my neighbors bill went up to $1400 up from $1,000 with a 4 k solar system .
Another government scam.
what i will point out here is:
the PV costs in aus are high, when the govt started to subsidise them they got even pricier as the companies jacked their margins up to make more.
(same thing happens with water tank subsidies, the price of the Tank went up = to subsidy and then you HAD TO have a plumber install it to use ONLY for laundry and toilet use, NO drinking etc)
anyway, the power cos and govt offered cheap loans via their deals, to suck in a lot of the LESS well off who were battling the big power costs.. Before!! the damned carbon tax hike went on as well!
and YES the subsidised sell back rates were disproportionately high..Blame the LIARS! green govt PTB for allowing that!
a sell back at the same as the buy in would have been adequate.
and yes of course the companies then added fees and charges to the rest of us(inc the PV owners as well for their supply.
and for some of us, In Vic aus especially we then got insane smart meters Mandatory which our own best advisors called a disaster and a impost on consumers with NO BENEFIT!! for anyone BUT the damned power cos again, BILLIONS wasted on 3 tier meters removed and dumped. average fees for service on my supply per year are 240$
smart meter will add yearly increases on top.
my entire years bill would be around 800.
yes I am VERY frugal. Take the 240 in fees from the total:-)
and no I have NO gas I use wood heating, no aircon no tv, few appliances.
so what could I do to lower costs when I am already at a far lower than average useage?(just a whisker over half the normal single household per quarter)
the cost of a PV unit and batteries to save the inverter and connection and govvy rip off is Far far beyond my means, around 20k. PLUS interest on a loan to do it.. how many decades to recoup that?
insane to even consider.
so when the GOVT says they will pay a LOT more than buy in costs…why do you wonder so many rushed to install, get discounts and Make some of the rip off prices back?
As it is in this country, the politicians & their cronies will get the money—one way or another. Fiddlin
With Australian generative infrastructure lagging to close to California etc rolling stoppages levels new infrastructure was necessary, fast. And Labor-Greens will not build it. Soooo what better way to have that necessary output provided at a minimal cost to Gov’t/s than sucker people to providing it – at THEIR cost – and then purloin the input “for the greater good” on the base of some “equilibration” of values.
There is a word for that.
It’s called THEFT.
That is wrong – there is no lack of generative capacity in Australia – indeed with many energy intensive industries no longer able to compete with China and closing there is too much electricity generation capacity.
If we had never had the green renewables policy actual electricity costs would be decreasing.
Again – this story is good news and in no way represents theft – even if the did require all new installs to sell all the power cheap you simply would not install it at all – existing installs have contracts and would require modification – THIS IS GOOD NEWS – THE DEATH OF A GOVERNMENT SUBSIDISED GREEN GRAVY TRAIN – REJOICE.
try this one:-)
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/2012/09/u-s-energy-subsidies-are-destroying-economy/?utm_source=Emailbrain&utm_medium=email&utm_term=NewsletterLink&utm_campaign=9-9-12-CASubsidiesBackfire&utm_content=
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California: San Luis Obispo County Supervisors approve of a $1.2 billion solar project with a bankrupt company that is owned by the French, and which is subsidized by loan guarantees from the federal government. [It will create only 12 permanent jobs, will manufacture solar panels in Mexico, and will cease operations in 50 years. Consumers will be forced to pay 50% above market price for the energy it produces. Does the word boondoggle come to mind?]
So the logical response will be either they disconnect their PV panels from the utility to not use it at all OR disconnect the house from the utility to go off grid which means they have to buy batteries and probably extra PV panels for a stand alone operation. The former means you lost your investment to the arbitrary change in rules by government and the latter means you have to throw good money after bad.
A simple compromise that would have benefited both the utility and homeowner would have been to not allow the homeowner to be reimbursed for any excess electricity generated. The utility would still enjoy the excess free electricity during peak hours to sell to the business community at a profit. The homeowner would still benefit by allowing the meter to act as a savings bank whereby excess electricity produced during the peak time (day light) would be stored for free to be used at night. That still would be a win/win scenario since the utilities would have free electricity without significant investment in equipment during the peak consumption hours and homeowners wouldn’t have to go off grid with batteries saving them also a significant investment in equipment. Off course, government being run as usual for the monied connected few always sets up the win/lose situation to benefit campaign contributors at the expense of the many. It’s the same age old problem all over the world. Federalist Papers #62
http://www.publiusforum.com/2010/02/20/what-james-madison-said-about-hope-and-change/
No – existing installations are NOT affected by these changes – only new ones after July 1 2012.
As I said above this is actually good news and will help prevent some of the future electricity price increases.
This is the death of an uneconomic and unfair green renewable energy insanity.
This is good news for everybody – as I said in a comment above some people have been conned with cheap panels and inverters showing premature signs of failure already.
Carbon tax has been a major issue during the recent elections in Queensland. Those elections resulted in an enormous loss for the ALP Australian Labor Party. The (conservative) Liberals now have almost all the seats in the Queensland parliament. The previous state government was keeping electricity expensive. People without solar panels (mostly poor people) were paying for the electricity produced by the solar panels that belong mostly to richer people, who got payed far too much for their solar energy produced during the day time, when there was hardly a demand for that energy. So there was a big need for change, may-be this change goes a bit too far, but it seems only fair that people who supply the grid with their inpredictable solar energy get payed very little for that energy. To me it also seems fair that they don’t have to pay for the energy they produce and consume themselves. On the other hand, if they get payed a real market price for the energy they supply to the grid at times when nobody needs that energy, they would loose on the investment they made during the previous “green” state government. We really need a comment from someone in Queensland, familiar with all the details, to judge this news.
So, I go out and finance the 3-4000 dollars it takes to put solar on my house like several of my neighbors have done – by the way I live in a mall duplex near the railroad tracks in a lower-middle class neighborhood – incomes below $40,000 per year here – and I MUST sell the power to the power company and buy it back at retail prices – and cannot just use it for myself while making the payments on the solar system? And some of you think that is fair? The folks who are trying to get off the grid are not RICH folks – Gore uses the grid remember? We just think that paying the up front cost to be free of the higher prices in the future is a good idea because, after the power companies are bankrupted by the government we won’t be able to afford power for heat – and, guess what, they will probably make our wood stoves we currently use illegal and we will be among the dead. This idea is outrageous – maybe solar users should not be able to sell their excess power to the power companies at more than wholesale prices because that is not fair to other consumers of that power but they should NOT be required to sell all of their power at wholesale and buy it back at retail – they should have all of their own power they need since they paid for the system.
Again the real point is missed.
First $3000 – $4000 is not the cost of a solar system – the actual cost is about double to three times that. $3000 to $4000 is the co-contribution – the rest of the cost is recovered by the installer claiming “renewable energy credits – RECs” from the government who pay the extra $6,000 – $10,000 and increase the retail cost of electricity to pay for this rip-off.
If you are wealthy and can afford say $10,000 co-contribution you get a $30,000 – $40,000 system for $10,000.
This system would have generated so much electricity that at 44 cents a kilowatt hour it will return your $10,000 in a few years.
If you’re unable to pay a big amount and get a modest system it will generate less electricity and probably never pay for itself as mine probably might break even if I live long enough – a 1.05 KW system costing me $2400 a few years ago.
If you’re poor or live in a rented premises you get the pleasure of paying much higher electricity costs so that the wealthy can make money out of you and a stupid government insane enough to encourage rip-off schemes like this.
This story is about a new government realising this scheme was costing not only everybody but the government itself a lot of money so they reduced the amount they will pay for NEW installations – existing ones they are stuck with under contracts.
As for making people sell the electricity cheap and then buy it back at higher prices – it won’t happen. there are thousands of installations that would require an electrician to modify – it ain’t gonna happen.
This is actually good news – a government has pulled off the green blinkers and realised the costs are outrageous.
Sure, this will kill the solar panel industry in Queensland but like all green policies it had become a government subsidised gravy train.
Without the generous subsidy no-one in their right mind would pay the costs of some of the huge installations I have seen – AND with the cheap panels and inverters installed they better get their money back soon – some have already shown signs of impending failure after only a few years.
Oh, and hands up all those who know that when your mains electricity goes off in a blackout so does your solar ??
Yes that is right – if the mains power goes off the inverter stops working and the 12 volt power generated by the panels is wasted unless you invest in a battery scheme – now you’re talking money !!
I don’t know very much about what’s going on in Australia. Did the government put all of it’s power generation needs in renewables, and now can’t meet general power needs? Why else would you be so desperate for electricity?
Actually the reverse is true – there is an excess of power available.
The rooftop solar was driven by green “renewable” electricity policies and not sound engineering principles.
For years our power authorities sold off peak power cheap for hot water systems in residences – the purpose being to balance load – so our hot water was really cheap.
Sound engineering wasn’t good enough for the green morons though – they wanted reduced electricity usage at higher costs to justify the absurd costs of “renewables”.
So a few years ago the government banned the sale of large volume electric water heaters which balanced load during off peak night times.
Then they introduced subsidised solar which is obviously intermittent.
To cater for these unnecessary changes the distributions systems required major upgrading – to be fair they needed some work due to negligence anyway.
Then the government starting crying that electricity costs were increasing and a lot of the cost was due to the distribution network which the government actually caused with their policies in the first place.
We even had the hypocrisy of the prime minister claiming the power companies were “gold plating” the network to artificially increase power prices when it was the government causing the increases because of “dangerous climate change”.
They are incompetent and liars.
The unpopular increasing cost of electricity in Australia is entirely government responsibility in an endeavour to make electricity so expensive that “renewables” become affordable and it will send the country broke if it continues – just like Europe.
Does THEFT cover it?
Especially considering the considerable monetary outlays installation has cost every grid-linked solar ‘lecky unit purchaser
And this of course would NOT have anything to do with being some quite devious plan by gov’ts to avert impending supply shortages and outages due increased demand against reduced generative capacity due “greening” and other policies?
We live in Queensland and have a 2kw solar system with a contract for 15 years to sell the power to the grid for 44c kw hour and we buy power for about 23c Kw. I guess this is for new solar customers because everyone with existing systems has a written and signed contract to sell power to the grid.
My cousin would love this law. He lives off grid in Arizona and has both PV and Wind generation.
The reason he does is running the feed lines from the grid would cost many times what the house cost. So in order to collect his power the companies would need to run the grid to his door (and he could then not replace his units as they go bad and just rely on the now conveniently placed grid). Then again I’d not put it past them to still charge him for the honor of collecting the power from him.
What I find absolutely amazing is that people have been brainwashed by the green movement to believe that those who can afford to improve their lives or have saved the money so they can improve their lives are somehow wrong.
.
The evil rich and class warfare have produced a group think playing off “keeping up with the Jones”. If I can’t do this, it is unfair. If John can do this, he is rich and that makes him part of the evil rich class.
.
I am buying solar panels one at a time. I am building my own wind turbines using F&P type washing machine motors (Whirlpool, LP). I will purchase or more likely build battery charge controllers. I live in the USA. We have our electric company problems too.
.
But, does the fact that I am doing this make me one of the rich people? Or is it simply that only those who see opportunity and leverage it (capitalism) are evil?
I’m sorry but you’ve got the wrong handle on this story.
The new Government is trying to get rid of private solar panels which were paid more than double – 44 to 52 cents per kWHr – by cutting the subsidy for new installations to 8 cents – the wholesale price.
All the existing installations have 15 year contracts because the previous Government believed in climate change and supported green initiatives like solar at huge subsidised prices.
And the last Government had a green bent and it was the very wealthy who pocketed the most government money while the poor, unable to afford the require co-contribution pay more for their electricity to rich people who have their roofs covered by subsidised solar panels.
So, you have gotten this story backwards – the rich did very well out of this boondoggle solar scheme while everybody else paid for them.
The scheme was nuts and the government needed to end it before it cost a fortune.
Doesn’t anyone notice it is Europe – so bent on green energy – that is broke and the green energy countries are bankrupt ?
In fact, here, in Canada, if a farmer wants to make cheese out of his own cows milk, he has to sell the milk firts to the milk factory, and re-buy it at a higher price. In Italy, they call it MAFIA!
In a civilised country they call it sound Environmental Health and measures like this ended the plagues etc that used to kill millions in past ages.
Take from an Environmental Health Officer – sound food hygiene is a good thing and combined with improved sanitation the main reason why we have a population problem – less die through preventable illnesses.
I happen to think that is a good thing – many of those alive to read this may have died prematurely without sound hygiene practices.
People do not understand what is happening here.
In Australia the Federal Government – Labor Party – has climate change policies. Under these policies the Federal Government subsidises the installation costs of solar panels and they require a co-contribution based on the costs of the system minus the renewable energy credits – RECs.
If you live in an area where the RECs are worth it you get a system at about a third of the cost.
The Federal Government has no plans to change this scheme.
The State Government owns the power generators.
Until this year the State Government was also Labor and had climate change policies and also subsidised solar a bit but mainly paid much higher electricity generation rates to solar panel owners – 44 – 52 cents per KWHr versus less than 20 cents per KWHr retail cost.
When a lot of people started putting solar panels on their roof the State Government had a big problem – it was starting to cost a lot of money to pay these high Feed in tariffs of 44 – 52 cents versus actual wholesale of less than 8 cents.
The whole scheme was designed to force up electricity costs to make renewable competitive – but it had a downside – it made Governments unpopular because electricity was becoming unaffordable.
There is a new State Government which is not Labor that wants to reduce costs.
One simple way is to kill off the growing solar panel costs to them. So they will not pay more than wholesale rates for all NEW installs – they are stuck with existing installs.
So who intheir right mind is going to install a solar system when it will never pay for itself and that is the whole point for the Government – they don’t want anymore of these things.
The Federal Government wants more and is continuing the subsidy BUT the State Government controls the electricity generation and distribution systems.
At 44 or more cents per KWHr investing $10,000 – $20,000 (and getting $30,000 or more subsidy free) in a solar system made sound economic sense if you could afford it – it would pay for itself soon and end up making money.
Investing in a modest system may break even over 20 years.
If you’re poor you get the pleasure of paying more to subsidise the wealthy.
The Labor party is supposed to represent the poor in Australia but they have “green rot” in their “dangerous climate change” psyche.
Do i miss something in reading your name ? rosco or rascal.
thank you
We live on a boat and are self sufficient bar food, we desalinate out own water and 320w of solar panels linked to500ah of batteries covers our electricity use.
If you can learn the simple electronics, you could make yourself fairly self sufficient in solar/battery/inverters for less than six years electricity from grid prices. assuming you live less than 40 degrees north or south of the equator
For less than the cost of 6 years grid electricity prices you could be fairly self sufficient in solar/batteries/inverters. as long as you Do the install yourself and buy the panels sensibly close to a $ per watt nowadays